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(train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. >> tonight, guns in america. >> these massacres don't seem to stop. >> democrats take direct aim at assault weapons. >> we should be outraged by how easy it is for perpetrators of these horrific crimes to obtain powerful military-style weapons. >> will a sweeping new bill make america safer? i'll talk to lawmakers backing it. >> newt gingrich on the second amendment and obama's bill. and gun girls live from the shooting range. why they want their ar-15s.

and my interview with the uncle of a new mexico boy charged with killing four members of his family. >> do you believe him? manti te'o speaks. i'll ask john elway what he thinks about it and the big game in new orleans. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. you're looking live at capitol hill tonight. now ground zero in the growing battle over guns. saying enough is enough, senator dianne feinstein introduced a tough new bill to ban 150 firearms including assault weapons and semiautomatic weapons, and also magazines that hold more than ten rounds of ammunition. >> columbine, virginia tech, aurora, tucson, oak creek. the common thread in these shootings is each gunman used a

semiautomatic assault weapon or large capacity ammunition magazines. >> the nra is of course fighting back, saying in a statement senator feinstein has been trying to ban guns from law abiding citizens for decades. they know gun bans don't work and we are confident congress will reject senator feinstein's wrong-headed approach. >> joining me, carolyn, who is pushing a similar bill in the house, and also philadelphia mayor michael nutter. welcome to you both. when i heard dianne feinstein today, very personal, very emotional, reliving one of the horrific things she went through, as indeed you did. here's what i don't get. i don't get why within minutes, really, of this assault weapons ban being proposed, already we start to hear, it may be impossible to get it through the senate, through the house. and the main reason may be

democrats. democrats who are too worried about their own spins and their own backyards and their own political careers to do what they probably believe would be the right thing for their country. what do you do to change their minds and therefore the chances of success of this attempt to change the law? >> well, piers, what you have to understand, after these horrific shootings we go through, what the nra does is stop all the negative stuff, and the members, to be honest with you, get nervous about it. what we're tying to do is reach out to the american people because i have to say the response from all of the years of these kinds of shootings and what happened in newtown, that was finally what america said enough is enough. listen, i know it's very tough, but the nra is not helping us at all, mainly because we're saying we're taking away their guns. we are not. they have a second amendment right. that's what the right is, but

the supreme court also says we have a right to do legislation to protect our citizens. and that's what we're doing. but they're putting out so many negative things. they're putting out lies, to be very honest with you. we have facts and figures that we can save lives. and everybody wants to say it can't be done. you know what? they said that also in '94. so this is something we can do. the president of the united states is behind us. he's going to work across this country, but the american people also are certainly gearing up for this. and by the way, we just had a hearing yesterday, and we had hunters, we had sports people, and they are basically saying they go hunting, they do -- go out and have sports with guns. they don't need assault weapons. they don't know why anybody would need them. >> i keep asking that same

question of everybody who comes on my show. why does anybody need one of these assault weapons? mayor nutter, you came on my show. you took part in a very lively debate that night. i never heard a good reason. anyone who needs one says they're the ferrari of weapons. how do you get through to the american people that takes on the nra effectively, that actually challenges their continued lie, and that's what it is. anyone who tried to bring in a ban on assault weapons wants all of the guns. that is not the debate. today, dianne feinstein made it clear, 2,200 weapons and guns will still be left in circulation. how many more types do people need? >> well, piers, i have to tell you, and representative mccarthy, thank you so much for your leadership. i leaned over to your colleague, representative esty, and said, i didn't realize there were so many different types of guns or weapons in the first place. i mean, no one has ever been

able to truly answer the question, piers, as to why a civilian, why virtually anyone needs one of those kinds of weapons. so, i mean, the lies, the misdirections, the intimidation, you know, it's time for all of us in elected office, might want to pick up a copy of john kennedy's profiles in courage and do what is right. if you do the right thing, everything else usually works out. >> i have an interview coming up with two young women who wrote a piece in which they said they wanted the rights of the ar-15 weapon at home because they feared they would be attacked and they wanted a gun that would guarantee they would murder or would kill their attacker. how do you respond to that particular argument, which is they believe under their second amendment right they should be allowed an ar-15? >> i will tell you, if you talk to professionals, hunters and

certainly sportsmen, they'll tell you that's not the gun to use. a rifle is more accurate. it's certainly easier for a woman to be able to do that. so again, there are these myths and the advertisement that goes out on this. it's totally wrong. it truly is wrong, but listen, there are a lot of good nra members out there. a lot of times we're dealing with the far right on the nra. but what people have to understand, and this is what the american people are now facing in their heart of hearts, why do we need to have these when they're slaughtering our children? and by the way, not just these mass killings, but the killings that are going on every single day, we can do legislation to help certainly the american people to live in a safer country. i'm a nurse. i have always been a nurse. even in congress. and i will say to you, i could not save every single patient. i could not save every single

person from gun violence, but by gosh, i'm going to do everything i can to cut down the amount of killings, and those that are injured and stay injured for the rest of their life, like my son, this is a life-changing event for people, and they have to understand that. >> let me ask very quickly, michael nutter, do you believe that you can win this argument and get an assault weapons ban reinstated? >> yes, i believe in the american public. americans are very, very smart. they're going to cut through a lot of this nonsense that's going on out here. they're going to let their voices be heard through their members of congress, through mayors, through governors, through their legislatures. they have had enough. and we are going to be successful and do something very positive here in our country. >> mayor michael nutter and senator mccarthy, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> now let's turn to last weekend's mass shooting in albuquerque, new mexico.

this boy used two rifles to kill his mother, his father, and two siblings. family owned guns. nobody could imagine this would happen, but it did. his uncle joins me so we can learn more about what happened, why it happened, and how this young boy did the things he did? eric, thank you so much for joining me. it's been an awful week for you, for the remaining members of your family. i can't imagine anything worse. i extend to you at the top of this interview my deepest and sincerest condolences. >> thank you. the services are tomorrow, and the family hasn't really even had a chance to get some closure on this, but unfortunately, we have had to sort of get involved in the conversation that's so one-sided. we knew this young man and we knew a lot about him. he was an average kid, above average in some athletics. none of us, the huge congregation, his extended

family, a large family, saw any signs he could remotely be possible of this. he had no criminal report, had no record with the criminal system, he had never shot an animal or abused an animal. >> to clarify what happened to those viewers who have not followed this as closely as i followed this. nehemiah was 15 years old and he killed your brother greg, his wife sarah, and two children. there were three siblings that weren't there at the time. he used a rifle and also to kill his father, we believe an ar-15 rifle. and as you say, there are nothing people can point to which would show any sign of mental disorder or an obsession with guns. the only thing i have read and gleaned from this is apparently he was pretty obsessed with playing violent video games. you know him a lot better than i do. do you think that could have

played any part in causing him to suddenly go off like this? >> we have no idea. we do know that his parents, my brother and his wife, did not allow those kind of games as far as we know. i never saw him play the games. could he have done it on the side or clandestinely or with friends? i think it's entirely possible. could it be the only motivation? i have no idea. did he have a psychotic breakdown? did the statement about walmart, did his reference to a game as opposed to something that he was actually going to do? we don't know. and the fact is that the media is not even trying to get to the bottom of this. >> just to clarify that, again, eric, the reference to walmart is the police claim they were told by nehemiah when they arrested him that he had intended to after killing his family members, go off and commit a mass shooting at the local walmart.

>> yeah, and as far as we know, as far as we have been told and briefed by the investigators, that's the only thing he said. he said a lot of things. apparently, he was not in a great state of mind. for them to say because he said it, therefore, it must have been in the works and for it to be an international headline that his next victims were walmart, which sadly is what the local media is saying and picked up in the international media. there's a whole lot of recklessness put out there by the other side, by the prosecutors and really the sheriff. based on one -- >> did nehemiah to your knowledge, did he ever use any of the guns that were in the house? do you know if they were locked up safely because there is this big issue if you have weapons like an ar-15 and so on, you have to lock them away so children of that age can't get access to them. do you have information about that? >> this is a semirural area outside of albuquerque. not many neighbors around. my brother had dedicated the last 25 years of his life to try

to get people who were in trouble or under addiction to turn their lives around. by the nature of his work, there were people who were unseemly, so he worried for the welfare of his family. the way he chose to deal with it is he thought his oldest son should be essentially when he wasn't around, as on this night that this terrible thing happened, that he should be able to know how to shoot the weapon and anyhow how to protect his family. that's what he thought. i don't think he or any reasonable human being would have ever thought that his son who he entrusted to sort of protect the family would turn the gun on the family. so whether they were locked up or not, whether they were locked up or not, piers, my brother had entrusted him to protect the family. >> i don't want to lead you into any area that i know you feel uncomfortable for reasons i completely respect talking about. i think it raises a number of issues. the biggest concern to you and your family is not that.

it's how you rebuild the live s of those left and how you try to come to terms with what nehemiah has done. he's a very young man. he's 15 years old. there was no sign of this, there was no warning bell that he could have ever done such an atrocity, and i greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on the show tonight. again, my deepest condolences to you and your family and the friends of everyone involved who lost their lives. >> thank you, piers. next, newt gingrich joins us, talking about guns in america. and later, introducing the gun girls. they're live from the shooting range. you can prevent gas with beano meltaways,

or treat gas with these after you get it. now that's like sunblock before or sun burn cream later. oh, somebody out there's saying, now i get it! take beano before and there'll be no gas. i was the one that found supervisor milk's body, and i was the one who put a finger in a bullet hole trying to get a pulse. once you have been through one of these episodes, once you see what the crime scene is like, it isn't like the movies. it changes your view of weapons, i think. >> senator feinstein's bill to ban assault weapons democrats

are pushing in congress. what does newt gingrich think about it? he joins me now. welcome back, mr. speaker. how are you? >> i'm doing well, but i'm curious, piers, how many intros have you done using people who have successfully defended themselves with guns? >> let me ask you a question. how many people of the 3 million who own ar-15s, military style assault rifles in this country, have ever used them to defend themselves? >> i can't get you a number, but i'll be glad to try to find it. >> i haven't heard of any. here's my point, i haven't heard of any, so the answer comes back at you, why does anybody need in civilian life, a weapon that belongs in a military battlefield, as general stanley mcchrystal and general colin powell both said? >> first of all, the civilian ar-15 is not an automatic weapon. it's illegal to have an automatic weapon of that kind.

it's a semiautomatic, second, the last interview was very revealing. the uncle of the young man kept saying we don't know. i want to suggest to you that a great deal of what's going on here is everybody who wants to ban guns woke up immediately and said, i have a bill. it's the bill i had for ten years. let me bring it back in. the fact is, we don't know about a lot of these things, mental health is a big part of it. i have challenged my liberal friends. let's have hearings in chicago. chicago has very strict gun control, and was the murder capital of the u.s. last year, over 500 people were killed. now, why is it the people who are for gun control don't want to go to chicago to find out -- >> let me ask you this. why are automatic weapons banned in america? >> because they were felt to be too dangerous. >> why are they too dangerous? >> because of high-volume of

fire, which you don't get from a semiautomatic weapon. do you know how many bullets the shooter in aurora, james holmes, fired in a minute with his ar-15. >> no. >> he had a magazine that could fire 100 bullets in one minute. how many more bullets do you need to fire, mr. speaker, before that qualifies as a dangerous killing machine by your criteria? >> well, by my criteria, and this goes back to what you respect, piers. i think the second amendment really matters. i think if you look at the new law -- >> so do i, but what i want to know is where do you draw the line? you just said this law was set on automatic weapons back in the '30s. i put it to you that an ar-15 military style assault weapon as used in the last five mass shootings -- >> it's not an automatic weapon. >> what else do you call it? it can fire 100 bullets in a minute. what else do you call it? >> i would simply say to you that millions of people by your

own definition, own an ar-15. they're law-abiding. they think it's their light under our constitution to own it, and don't kid the rest of us. the people who were just on would ban all guns if they could get away with de. you look at the new york state law that governor cuomo just pushed, basically, it eliminates virtually every -- >> hang on, hang on. hang on. let me take you up on that. dianne feinstein is attacked by many republicans as being somebody who wants to ban all guns. do you know how many different types of guns she has permitted to remain in legal circulation in america under her proposal? >> this is what this year the government is willing to permit? >> but you have already agreed -- >> in new york state -- >> you have already agreed with the decision to not permit

americans to have automatic firing weapons. what's the difference? >> i don't think people -- okay, so now we're arguing over whether or not very many people's lives will be saved. i'm challenging you and others -- >> no, i'm not asking you. i'm asking you how many more guns does an american civilian need other than 2,200 that would be permitted under the new assault weapons ban. how many do they need to defend themselves, for goodness sake? what i can't understand, what is the difference between mass slaughter created by an automatic weapon and weapon we saw at aurora or sandy hook that can kill 100 people in a minute. what is the difference? >> wait a second. first of all, you're making our case. permitted. in other words, this year they're going to permit. next year, they may not permit. >> there are 50 or more gun control rules which do not permit americans to use certain types of weaponry already.

so that permission, decision has already been taken more than 50 times. >> so if your primary concern is saving lives, you have to look at pistols because pistols are the primary killers and they're the primary killers in big cities, all of which have gun control laws. none of which work. >> the preferred weapon of mass shooters, deranged young men, has been five deranged young men using ar-15s. why do they use them? because they're easy to use and they create the most mass shootings in a short period of time. i see no difference in the ability to commit mass murder between an automatic weapon which is banned and you agree with that ban, and an ar-15, which is shoot 100 people dead or 20 children at sandy hook in less than a minute. i see no difference. >> so where are you on pistols that have fairly large capacity?

where are you on the pistols that killed moe of the people in chicago, piers? it's okay if we kill them individually? >> my position is very, very clear. what is happening in chicago is completely outrageous, completely unacceptable. i think there's been a total breakdown in the effectiveness of the law enforcement. when you compare it to new york, they have solved a lot of gun problems in new york with stringent gun control and they have enforced it properly. it's like the wild west in parts of chicago. i have been there and i think it's outrageous. the fact that 11,000 or 12,000 people die in america from gun fire and a lot of that is by handguns used by criminals and gangsters is disgraceful. and i think many of the other -- >> let me share with you, you would ban pistols if you could? wouldn't you ban pistols if you could? >> let me explain what i would do. i would agree with dianne feinstein. it's the high-powered guns of any variety which can fire 30 or 40 or more rounds in less than a

minute that can cause mass murder that would be my primary concern right now. and the ar-15 is a prime example of that. >> okay, right now, and the reason you find so many of us, and by the way, it's a substantial majority, i think the last time i saw, 63% of the american people agree that the second amendment is actually there to protect us from tyranny. the reason you find so many of us very reluctant to go down this road is we believe each step down the road leads to the next step and the next step and the next step. we actually think the second amendment is central to our liberties, not just something there for hunters, not something there for target practice, but actually there because the founding fathers remembered that when your army tried to defeat us, luckily, our peasants weren't peasants. they were citizens. as citizens, they were in fact armed. that's the only reason we were able to win the revolutionary war. >> and you think the founding fathers thought automatic weapons are banned because they're dangerous. semiautomatics are not dangerous and they should be lawful?

>> the founding fathers would have found this strange because they believed in individual freedom and they were very suspicious of big government, and they would find the idea that you're going to permit, to use the word you kept using, permit us to have a few liberties right now, was the antithesis of the american experience. >> but you do agree with americans not having automatic weapons? >> i think 50 caliber machine guns would be bizarre. i'm happy to say those rules seem to work fairly well. again, chicago is a problem, as you point out, of policing. chicago is a problem of where gun control hasn't worked. >> chicago, chicago has to sort itself out. chicago's police force has to get in there and stop the gangs shooting each other. i totally agree with you. you're never going do hear a word from me against that.

it's outrageous. i also agree with american's rights to have a handgun or pistol to defend themselves. i don't see why any american needs an ar-15 military style assault weapon, and i will not be persuaded because the people trying to persuade me accuse me of attacking the second amendment, that agrees with the government decision to ban automatic weapons, and i don't see the difference. >> i know you don't, and all i'm suggesting to you is most of us are very cautious about allowing government to continue to extend its power, and most of us believe that there are a lot of other solutions. i think there are mental health solutions. most of these mass killers, in fact, the young man you just described, the uncle was very open about this. that young man, having a gun check wouldn't have worked. that young man, in fact, would have been empowered by his father to use the family gun. >> would that young man have slaughtered five of his family

if he hadn't had access to the firearms in this house? >> no, but now you're back to a different question. his father had empowered him. >> i don't disagree he must have clearly had mental issues. i don't disagree he probably had a fixation with violent videos, but i do know one thing. it is very likely that those family members would still be alive if he hadn't had such apparently easy access to weapons, including an ar-15. >> as his uncle tried to tell you, the reason he had access was his father thought he would be able to protect the family. his father gave him that access. so you're saying you want the state to step in? >> newt, my final point is he clearly didn't protect them. he killed them, and that is the problem with this situation. look -- >> that's a tragedy, piers. that's a tragedy, not a political point. i think it's totally wrong to try to turn that into something else.

>> it's a tragedy, we don't know all of the answers, but this is a situation where we want less americans to be killed by guns, right? >> i like your answer. we don't know the answers, but let's rush ahead because we do know what we would like to do, which is what dianne feinstein wanted to do 20 years ago and finally she has another excuse to do what she always wanted to do. that's not looking seriously at mental health, at violent games, at a variety of things which may have nothing to do with a 20-year-old proposal that in fact is brought out every single chance they have to try to extend the power of the government over individuals. >> mr. speaker, i have forgotten how pleasurable it can be arguing with you. thank you for coming back. >> good to be with you. coming up next, the gun girls. two young women who want their ar-15s. they're firing their weapons right now, and they will join me from a shooting range coming up. for the new mattress models,

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♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ a shotgun will keep you a lot safer. a double-barrel shotgun and the assault weapon in somebody's hands who doesn't know how to use it, even one who does know how to use it, it's harder to use an assault weapon and hit

something than a shotgun. >> vice president biden using the argument, you don't need assault weapons for self defense. joining me now are the gun girls, two women who tell us exactly why they need them. welcome to you, ladies. >> thank you for having us on. >> explain to me why you believe you need an ar-15 style assault rifle. >> well, i personally bought one for self defense. one, they're lightweight. they're quite accurate. i can shoot them much more accurately than a handgun or a shotgun. and three, these -- i'm going to pull a david gregory right here and hold up my 30-round magazine right here because it's actually legal in virginia. but i want a gun that can hold a lot of ammo because if i'm faced with an intruder or multiple

intruders that come into my home, i want to make sure i have enough ammo to get the job done. especially if they're armed. i want it to serve as an insurance mechanism to make sure i have enough rounds that if multiple intruders and in and they're armed, where don't have to reload. >> i'm sure that was one of the reasons adam lanza's mother had one at her house along with a series of other weapons. as you now know, this deranged young man took his mother's weapon, went to an elementary school and murdered 26 people, including 20 children. that is when it becomes not so funny and becomes a more serious issue. that's what happens. mass shooters get their hands on these things. james holmes was legally able to buy one and commit mass murder as well. it's that that concerns me. as much as i listen to you and try to respect your argument, i agree with joe biden. i don't understand why you can't use a regular rifle, a regular

pistol or regular handgun to defend yourself. why do you need these mass killing machines? >> here is the thing, piers, the fact this is the most popular rifle in the united states. there's 3 million people, as you know well, who own these. and they are quote/unquote, called assault weapons, however, the vast majority of law-abiding citizens who own them do not consider them for the purpose of assault but rather hunting. >> no one uses it for hunting. every hunting told me if you can't get them down in three shots, you're not a hunter, and if you hit them with 100 shots, you have destroyed the animal. that's not hunting. >> let me make the point really fast. ar-15s in virginia are actually not allowed to be used to hunt deer because they don't get the job done.

>> right. >> they don't essentially kill deer right away. >> the only animal is a rabbit in virginia with an ar-15. >> do you ladies agree with automatic weapons being banned? >> that's not the issue at hand right now because they are banned. >> that's my question. no, no, with respect, it's my question, not the issue, it's the question. >> yeah, but this isn't the reason we were bought on the show to talk. >> can you just answer my question? let me ask you the question. i asked newt gingrich, and he answered me. i just want you to answer the question. do you believe automatic weapons should be banned, as they are? >> basically, that is something that i don't really -- um. >> i believe right now that it's not the issue at hand. i really don't believe -- they are banned right now. they are banned right now. >> can either of you answer a simple question? do you agree with the government's decision, which is an on-going law, to ban

automatic weapons? >> right now, yes. they should be used in the military because right now assault -- yeah. automatic weapons, they're much harder to control, and they shoot many more rounds per minute than an ar-15 does. >> okay, but you both know that an ar-15, as we saw in aurora, and we saw at sandy hook, they can fire up to 100 rounds in a minute. indeed, there are magazines that can hold 100 rounds for those weapons and they can commit mass murder on a large scale. explain to me why these are less -- it's not funny. seriously, really not funny. when 20 young children get slaughters, it's not a matter to laugh. it really isn't. it's not a laughing matter. >> i'm laughing because you're interrupting me and i can't get my point in. i'm not laughing at that. >> let me ask you one more time --

>> let me make a point here. let me make a point here. >> what is the difference in the ability to cause mass murder between an automatic weapon and an ar-15 with a 100-bullet magazine? explain to me. >> let's look at what happened when there was an assault weapons ban in place. there was a mass murder. it's called columbine. that happened with a .9-millimeter gun among other guns that weren't assault rifles. you can hear from democrats. many democrats are making the point that banning assault rifles won't necessarily stop these mass murders from happening. >> but you can't explain the difference in the ability to commit mass murder from a gun that is banned and an ar-15 that can fire 100 bullets in a minute? can you explain that to me? >> you pull the trigger and it shoots, as opposed to the automatic. and we, as young women wanting to defend ourselves, we want the capacity to have more bullets

than your average handgun would have. so we have decided that this is something that we in defending and exercising our second amendment rights, as well as the -- >> and let's bring up a situation here. we saw a situation in georgia just a couple weeks ago where a mom was hiding in her attic with her two children when an intruder entered her home. she had a handgun that only had six rounds in it. she fired all six rounds, missed the intruder once. hit him five times in the face and in the neck, and he still lived. what if it had been -- >> how many of the 3 million americans own ar-15s have used them to defend themselves or their home? >> there are far many examples, but are the media willing to cover them? >> do you know one? >> for example, yes, in 2010, in houston, texas, there was a 15-year-old boy alone at home,

and he was -- he was home alone with his 12-year-old sister when two intruders tried to enter in the front door and in the back door of his house. he grabbed his ar-15 and shot at them and they ran away. >> do you believe, ladies -- >> and the fact is -- >> do you believe that women should be allowed on the front line in combat in the military? >> i believe -- i believe they should. and i believe they should pass the same physical tests that men do before going into combat. >> okay, then we finally agree on something. thank you both for joining me. >> yes, definitely. thank you so much for having us. coming up, i'll ask john elway about manti te'o and the girlfriend who never existed, and frank rich is here to talk about americans. -oh! -oh! oh! oh! ♪ what do you know? oh! ♪ bacon? -oh! -oh! oh! [ female announcer ] with 40 delicious progresso soups

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from guns to benghazi. frank rich, frank, is it just me? am i not wise enough to america to understand why it's apparently not an infringement on the second amendment to ban

automatic weapons but it is to ban an ar-15 that can fire 100 bullets in a minute? >> to answer the first question, yes. >> it's not just me? >> it's not just you. excuse me. there's no real logic to this sort of second amendment argument, although it's so deeply ingrained in the american character. it really is an american thing. doesn't mean that people from other places can't understand it, and you obviously have gotten into it very seriously, but it's almost a religious thing. so trying to apply logic to these arguments, they make no sense. they're coming to take away our guns. it's an infringement on our rights. the state, this particularly, i guess, this particularly president, is going to come and get us, and the founding fathers wanted this. the founding fathers wanted slavery, too. i think in some ways this gun culture is an entrenched in the

american psyche as slavery. >> i agree with you. that brings me to whether they can get this through. i watched "lincoln" the movie, incredibly hard to abolish slavery. and he really went out on a limb and he did it, and a few months later, he was assassinated, but he had moral courage. you're hearing a number of democrats in red states are more worried about being kicked out of office by the nra and other lobbyists going after them than they are about doing the right thing for the safety of america. >> keep in mind about lincoln, it's a very interesting analogy because lincoln took a while to get there, to look at the end of slavery as a crucial issue, and he couldn't have gotten there without support, starting with, of course, from slaves and african-americans who were

already taking matters into their own hands to the extent they could. in the case of the gun debate, there's no real support except among people like us. and you know -- >> where is the equivalent of the nra for those who respect the right to have a gun to defend yourself or home, but want the assault weapons gone, for example. where is that body having the same kind of political and financial muscle? >> there are some good organizations. >> the brady campaign. they're not the same league of funding and support as someone funding and support as someone like the nra. >> i would argue that someone like michael bloomberg, who is totally in favor of gun control, very strong on it, and could actually write the checks and do this, if he did it, counter the nra's money, i'm not sure it would make a difference because it has to come from the country as a whole. there has to be leadership at the top, and also in the red states where democrats are running, they're scared. it can't all come from the mayor and governor of new york, from dianne feinstein who is california. it's going to have to come from the rest of the country.

>> when you see 2,200 guns remain legal in the proposal, that's not enough? >> it's never enough. there's no logic to it. it's a credo and it's going to take, i feel, i feel as strongly as you do, but it's going to take a long time to marshal that leadership, marshal that ground roots support for it. as you can see from the two young women you had on the air tonight, young people are as poised to embrace this as old people. >> i agree. quick question on hillary clinton. how do you think she fared after the benghazi interview? >> brilliantly. >> feisty, i thought. >> feisty, and look, it's a tragedy. it's murky. some of the details are murky. obviously, there were mistakes, but i felt she gave clear answers to what is known right now, and the attitude of many of her interrogators was so ridiculous and supercilious that she sort of brushed them off. i thought it was pretty

powerful. >> i didn't get the feeling of somebody falling out, i got a feeling of somebody regrouping and getting ready for something much bigger in four years. >> maybe so. she did nothing to harm herself with this appearance. and republicans still fighting the last election where they thought they would have romney in, it's going to have diminishing returns. >> great to see you. from firearms to football. talking manti te'o. john elway joins us to talk about all that, and answers the big question, has he ever had a fake girlfriend himself?

for people feeling they are misled, that i'm sorry for, but i wasn't as forthcoming about it, but i didn't lie, and i

never was asked did you see her in person. >> college football star manti te'o, talking to katie couric about a dead girlfriend who never existed. joining me now is a sporting legend, john elway. two super bowl wins, passionate with keeping america great. >> good to be here. >> a true legend. >> no, not really. >> do you sit easy with the mantle of legend? >> i was lucky enough to play 16 years in the nfl, 2 super bowl teams. to be able to accomplish the goals, win a world championship. a great thing for me. >> here is the question i never thought i would ask john elway?

ever had a fake girlfriend? >> no. never have. >> can you imagine having a fake girlfriend? one had you for a year without ever physically seeing her, even when you skyped she never appeared, et cetera, et cetera. >> no, i can't imagine having that, and everything going on with manti and, obviously a sad situation. hate to see a kid go through that. >> do you buy it all from what you've seen? >> i do. sounds like naivity to me. but then again, i had wait, vet it out, see what happens. and go from there. >> hate to think about it obviously improved his play. so the question i guess for you now, since are you in this great high-powered position with the broncos, are you actively encouraging the broncos now to have fake girlfriends in the hopes it boosts their play? >> no, no. we'd like to boost their play, but not like that. >> i think you should sign up manti take york give him another fake girlfriend.

how good of a player? >> a good player. we're getting into the study now that season is ending and start getting into free agency and into the draft. but i think manti has a tremendous reputation on the football field. >> we'll talk a lot in the show as many shows recently about guns and gun violence in america. you're from colorado, and particularly appalled by what happened in the aurora movie theater, as i'm sure everybody there was. but as somebody who has grown up in american culture and presumably around guns when you were a youngster, what was your view of the debate as it stands? >> i'm waiting to hear both sides of it. i'm a gun owner and hunter and i enjoy that, respect the second amendment. >> as somebody who hunts, shoots, so on, do you see need for a civilian to have one of these military style rifles that can pump out 100 bullets a minute?

>> no. i don't own a machine gun. >> but do you see in anybody would see one? >> i do not. and that's the side i'm waiting to hear about and to see if that is the solution. number one, if that's the solution that can prevent some of these catastrophes going on at grade schools, then i'm all for the solution. >> you endorsed mitt romney. i have seen you're republican. what mistakes did the republicans make? >> i don't know if you can define the mistakes. bottom line, president obama did a tremendous job, tremendous campaigner, the people on the ground had a tremendous job, getting votes, people to the polls and tremendous job there. >> big game coming up, super bowl. where is your money going? >> i can't bet, so my money isn't going anywhere. >> metaphorically. i'm teasing. ravens, 49ers, who will take it? >> two good football teams. look at it on paper, i think looking at it right now the

49ers will win the game. >> dove campaign, being comfortable in your own skin. tell me briefly about that? >> dove men plus care. a campaign, journey to comfort. feeling comfortable in your own skin. i enjoyed it. three different spots, one about dancing and embarrassing my kids, as well as the play, which was -- when i was at stanford and the way i walk and it was kind of funny, unique look at me on the other side and to mess with me, you know, myself, tell people what i was all about. >> are you comfortable in your own skin, john? >> i am. >> most sportsmen find it very hard when they give up the high pressure intensity of nfl. have you come to terms with not being able to be out there? >> that takes a while. everybody that walks away from the game of football, especially if they played for a long time, played since we were youngsters, hard to walk away, and an adjustment once you get to the real world and don't have

competition, and don't have the weekly test. i really missed. but you know, because mentally you think you can play, but physically, your body -- especially in the game of football, your body runs out. >> a pleasure, nice to see up. >> nice to see you. that's all for us tonight. some come to witness... some to be heard. we come to make an impact. to learn from leaders... and to lead others. to create... and create change. we are the george washington university... we come to make history.

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